No scaper I don't know about that. Sounds too one world government to me.
Quote: They didn't necessarily put me off religion so much as make the hypocrisy evident
Well that's why I say you need to look to God and his Word vs looking at people. Everybody is filled with hypocrisy. Doesn't matter what you believe. It's part of our human condition known as sin.
I'm glad you aren't depressed dude, but I think ultimately hope lies outside of ourselves. Deep inside we have a need for God. At the same time inside we have a rebellion toward God going on. Humans are filled with contradictions.
Ok here's something to ponder. I listen to Ken Ham sometimes he's involved in the Creation Museum we went to a month or so ago. In his latest broadcast
http://oneplace.com/ministries/answers_in_genesis/ He stated that Natural Selection disproved evolution since scientist have found that genes only lose information not gain new information, and therefore the information genes have must have been put there to begin with. Listen to it yourself it's only like 30 seconds long.
This guy really knows his stuff he answers tough questions that plague a lot of believers, and he does it without contradicting the Bible. __________________
I just bought a new domain. Reallypolitical.com is coming! Just as soon as I figure out how to make it work. I need a script and junk. So be prepared to argue or tell me I'm a genius. Either way libs and conservative minds will be needed. __________________
Posted: 19 Jul 2007 01:56 Last Edited By: pakratmak
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I'm not sure whether or not a merger between us would work or not. I finally don't have an opinion on something scaper, I am sorry.
I'm set in how I think Tim; atheist, liberal, objectivist, hopeless romantic, etc. I had to make those decisions already a long time ago and while I can't say my mind won't change on any of this, I just don't see it happening and I don't see any need for it to happen. It's quite comfy here.
I checked the site you have linked there and didn't see the soundbite you were referring to and didn't want to wade through unnecessary propaganda to get to it.
Your most valuable asset for that site would be a trully 100% impartial moderator. Given those two choices of arguing or calling you a genius, I'm prepared to argue. __________________
Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
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Posted: 19 Jul 2007 04:01
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O.K. let's see if we can come up with a topic that will change the flow of convo. and create another storm of writing....
How about...
hmmmmm....
Did the U.S. really go to the moon or was it faked?
Did the CIA murder Marylin Monroe for secrets that Kennedy told her?
Did the U.S. set up the sept 11 attacks to set up the war and the international contracts to big business?
There some for you? __________________
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Posted: 19 Jul 2007 15:37
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Quote: I checked the site you have linked there and didn't see the soundbite
It's the first broadcast link.
Quote: Given those two choices of arguing or calling you a genius, I'm prepared to argue.
Well!
Quote: I'm set in how I think Tim; atheist, liberal, objectivist, hopeless romantic, etc.
I hate to say it dude, but what's romantic about believing you come from a monkey? I don't think there is any such thing as a complete atheist. When you take God's name in vain what do you say instead? Do you like just say your own name? I don't think so.
My stuff isn't propaganda. It's not part of communist regime or something. That's an atheist form of government. That's another thing. When atheist start a country they have to keep their people in the borders with walls and machine guns. We can't keep people out of our borders.
I don't know Scaper. Conspiracy theories are impossible to prove or disprove. __________________
Propaganda is just about anything that attempts to brainwash people by manipulation of fact and is not just a communist tool. It's a media tool designed to conform, not a government tool(not since WWII). That stuff isn't any more 'yours' than the show Smallville is. It's something you follow and enjoy and prescribe to and that's just fine. By all means enjoy it. Meanwhile, it's still propaganda to me. Just going by that article on the hate crime bill in the christianpost, I saw everything to get regular readers riled up about the government- everything except the basic truth of what was actually in the bill. This explained to me why you took the stance your freedoms are getting trampled on- you were led like a sheep.
There's absolutely nothing romantic about coming from a monkey unless you happen to be another monkey.
When I must curse and scream, I use Jesus' name in vain and leave God out of it, as usual. However, when someone sneezes I do say 'God bless you' and if I have to go to court and be sworn in I put my hand on the bible. We may not share beliefs but we're not savages either.
You mention athesits starting a country; who would they be exactly and where? __________________
Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
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Posted: 20 Jul 2007 00:58
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Quote: Did the U.S. really go to the moon or was it faked?
Yes.
Quote: Did the CIA murder Marylin Monroe for secrets that Kennedy told her?
It wasn't a suicide. To really answer this we would first need to know what really happened to JFK. He's involved somewhere, I am convinced.
Quote: Did the U.S. set up the sept 11 attacks to set up the war and the international contracts to big business?
If it was set up, it was strictly for dubya to continue his daddy's fight and leave a 'legacy'. Not that I could say it was set up, but I am almost certain it would not have happened with a different president. __________________
Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
~V~
Posted: 20 Jul 2007 01:31 Last Edited By: Tim
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Quote: you were led like a sheep
Awfully confident about that aren't you? One thing you need to remember just when you think you know it all. You know nothing, because the more you know, the more you know you need to know more.
I think you calling everything you don't agree with propaganda is a great mental trick for you to ignore everything you don't agree with. Look you are just kidding yourself if you think there isn't even a sparkle of truth in anything that doesn't agree with Darwin, or Ted Kennedy. From even an impartial viewing that's just unrealistic.
Quote: I use Jesus' name in vain and leave God out of it
I think you know how I feel about that. Jesus is God.
Quote: We may not share beliefs but we're not savages either.
So you see, you do realize that civilized people believe in God.
Quote: You mention athesits starting a country; who would they be exactly and where?
Soviet Russia of course. You see, maybe you don't know enough history.
I'm not even going to argue with you about Bush causing 911, that's just rediculous. That's why liberals lose so much credibility.
I think that answers my next question, but still I'll ask it. What kind of liberal do you consider yourself to be? A modern Clinton liberal, or a FDR, jack Kennedy type? I bet you don't even realize the huge differences in ideology there are between the old libs and the new variety. __________________
The whole 9/11 thing has conspiracy written all over it. But to what degree was the U.S. aware of everything....I have no idea. The one fact that five thousand Jews never went to work that day is weird in itself.
I am not convinced that the U.S. did go to the moon. In fact almost 50 percent of American citizens think it was faked. __________________
Don't mess with me...I'm like a super BABY!!!
Posted: 20 Jul 2007 14:18
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I wouldn't say 50 percent believe that, it's kind of like a joke really to most people. At least people I know.
Maybe the reason the Jews stayed home was like one of those "One Step Beyond" deals, a premonition, warning from God, or maybe it was made up. __________________
If you can keep packaging atheists and communists neatly together as part of your opinion, I'll keep calling hype from biased media propaganda as part of my opinion.
On that particular issue(the hate crime bill), you brought the argument of your rights being infringed upon by that bill simply based on the article you read when you obviously hadn't looked over a bit of the bill itself. You were led like a sheep.
Russia started by atheists? and I don't know my history....interesting...
Quote: Tradition says the Viking Rurik came to Russia in 862 and founded the first Russian dynasty in Novgorod. The various tribes were united by the spread of Christianity in the 10th and 11th centuries; Vladimir “the Saint” was converted in 988. During the 11th century, the grand dukes of Kiev held such centralizing power as existed. In 1240, Kiev was destroyed by the Mongols, and the Russian territory was split into numerous smaller dukedoms. Early dukes of Moscow extended their dominion over other Russian cities through their office of tribute collector for the Mongols and because of Moscow's role as an administrative and trade center.
It goes on from there, but Russia didn't become communist until 1920. Russia started by atheists is a great example of 'propaganda'. It's an unfounded, silly idea being passed on as fact to try and change other peoples' opinions.
The dispute as to where 9/11 originated has earliest pointers(that I am aware of) going back to Reagan prompting the collapse of the Berlin wall. Bush is certainly not the sole cause, if a cause at all.
I don't pigeonhole myself with useless labels. I'm not a type of liberal, just a liberal. __________________
Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
~V~
Posted: 21 Jul 2007 01:33
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Quote: I'll keep calling hype from biased media propaganda as part of my opinion.
Dude you thought my George Washington clip was propaganda. That came from a classic prime time TV show in the 1960's. It was made for the almighty buck, but back then there was a huge difference in the way folks looked at history, freedom, and religion in general.
Quote: If you can keep packaging atheists and communists neatly together as part of your opinion
I didn't do that. That's history. It's a fact that Soviet Russia and communism in general is built on atheism the way we are built on religious freedom.
Quote: It goes on from there, but Russia didn't become communist until 1920. Russia started by atheists is a great example of 'propaganda'.
I believe I specified Soviet Russia. I knew you were going to pull that. That's why I specified from the get go.
Quote: I don't pigeonhole myself with useless labels. I'm not a type of liberal, just a liberal.
My point being if we took the classic meaning of liberal, in some ways I would be liberal. In FDR's time you would be considered a socialist or practically a communist by their standards. Knowing a historical perspective gives you a clearer picture of where you are. __________________
A change in the government does not alter what came before it, namely like when the country was founded. What Ivan the Terrible made happen did not erase what Catherine the Great achieved.
Ok, going by historical perspective, I'm really a hippie. __________________
Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
~V~
Posted: 22 Jul 2007 18:47
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The point my hippie friend is that communist atheistic Russia had to hold their people behind walls with machine guns. We a nation based on freedom to worship have to worry about keeping people out of our borders. There is a big difference. Perhaps God does bless the country whose God is the Lord.
Now what kind of hippie are you? A Beatles or Monkees hippie? If I were a hippie I'd have to be a Monkees hippie. Although I have been called a hippie in the past, I guess I could accept being called a conservative hippie who now has short hair. Sort of reminds me of the old Huey Lewis and the News song. It's hip to be square. __________________
well hello everybody. i've spent the last week water skiing, drinking by the fire and basically being lazy. god i love going to the cottage. i've got a wicked tan. so what did i miss? lots it looks like. but i'll pick up where i left off. tim, you had 5 questions for me. #1. what do i base right and wrong on? common sense. you seem to think if there was no bible than people wouldn't have figured out murder and stealing are wrong. the fact it was written in the bible simply illustrates that people were starting to adopt a "sense of common decency" even back 6000 years ago. #2. what do i do if i can't pray to god for help in difficult circumstances? it's called introspection. when you pray to god and you find an answer, it's not really god tim. it's you and your subconscious figuring out the problem for yourself. it's all psychological. i also have a strong support system. ie: family and friends. #3.do i ever wonder if god is real? sure. doesn't everybody? but i sure don't take the bible literally. if there is a god, i feel quite comfortable in saying he's nothing like what people think, regardless of which religion you subscribe to. #4.have i ever considered that heaven and hell are real and does that scare me? see previous answer. #5.just where do i get my off the wall ideas? i'm not sure which ideas you're talking about. is it because i don't think that non violent drug offenders should be in jail? or because i don't think that sex is some sacred thing that you should wait to have until marriage? insects have sex tim. all living creatures do it. it's not a big deal. anyway, i noticed some of you were talking about 911 conspiracy theories. as i write this, i'm also watching "Southpark" and they are addressing that very issue. and i agree completely with them. maybe i'll put some clips on from it. i said it was an intelligent show and i stand by that remark. when they address controversial subjects, they (the writers, or writer tre parker) always make excellent points. i'd also love to put a clip of the debate between bill o'reilly and richard dawkins. DH, i knew it.
Quote: #1. what do i base right and wrong on? common sense. you seem to think if there was no bible than people wouldn't have figured out murder and stealing are wrong. the fact it was written in the bible simply illustrates that people were starting to adopt a "sense of common decency" even back 6000 years ago.
I believe those things are wrong because they were condemned by God, and God condemned them because He loved us, and wanted to keep us safe and not wrong our fellow man. I have a sense of following a moral authority. In your case your moral authority is your own common sense or basically yourself. That means in effect your morality can change based on your own perceptions. Your morality can shift with the wind or political outside temperaments.
Quote: #2. what do i do if i can't pray to god for help in difficult circumstances? it's called introspection. when you pray to god and you find an answer, it's not really god tim. it's you and your subconscious figuring out the problem for yourself. it's all psychological. i also have a strong support system. ie: family and friends.
It's been stated on the news a few times that I know of that studies have shown that those that prayed or we're prayed for seemed to heal faster and have better chances of recovery than those that didn't. Many prayers are answered in the lifetime of a believer that are controlled by outside forces we don't have control of. That's when most people pray by the way. Most of us are too stubborn to pray when we think we can earn it or fix it ourselves. It's when things get too rough to handle we start seeking God's help.
Quote: because i don't think that sex is some sacred thing that you should wait to have until marriage? insects have sex tim. all living creatures do it. it's not a big deal.
Now you are saying we are just animals basically. If we are just animals it goes back to why worry about stealing from or killing other humans? Animals don't care to rip food from one another, or kill a weaker animal.
On the same note common sense really does back up Biblical teachings. Take your view on sex. You seem to forget there are consequences to sex outside of marriage. There are diseases, children without fathers, poverty, etc etc. __________________
Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
~V~
Posted: 30 Jul 2007 06:26
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well, i gotta say tim, i was with you on your first response until the last sentence. my sense of morality doesn't shift with the wind. i'm not even sure what you mean. please elaborate. on your second point about the bible helping sick people get better, i sort of agree but in a different way. let me explain. it's like this. say an airplane crashes and nobody dies. this happened just last year actually in toronto i think. anyway, so the plane crashes and everybody survives. people go ahead and say:"it's a miracle." people say:"we were praying to god and he saved us." no he didn't. you guys just lucked out. what about the hundred other crashes where noone survived. and i'm quite sure at least some of those people were praying on their way down too. where was god then? but i can see how, psychologically, a belief in the bible would help people get better or feel better. the same way sick patients have been shown to respond to animal companionship. but hey, if praying to god helps you in your daily life, then more power to you. now for the last part. we ARE all just animals. you say animals don't care to rip food away or kill a weaker creature. have you looked at what goes on in the world tim? people are the worst. and we do it on a global scale. it's called tribalism and it exists in all forms in nature. this is all pretty elementary stuff. lastly, sex outside of marriage. you mention sexual diseases and babies born without fathers. ever here of condoms. i've slept with more than a few chicks in my day and i'm as clean and childless as ever. and so are all my friends. and for the chicks that i know who are single moms, they raise their kids just fine. if a guy is a deadbeat and refuses to be a part of the kids life, well, hey, maybe it's for the best than if that's the kind of guy he is. you mentioned poverty, so i assume your talking about paying child support, well the courts and the jails are filled right now so there really isn't much recourse a single mom can take. by the time she goes to court, the kids almost 18. maybe if they didn't spend billions on incarcerating non violent drug offenders, they could get to those cases. according to recent crime stats, it's estimated that the canadian gov.t spends between 300$ and 500$ million a year on enforcing the law against simple possession of marijuana. is that a good way to spend our tax dollars? and in the united states it's worse. they have much more strict drug laws. and yet people go nuts when a dangerous offender who is a high risk to reoffend is set free because the jails are overcrowded. or they wonder why a guy only serves two thirds of his sentence. or why cases can take years before they ever see the inside of a court room. look at lindsay lohan. i hate her and paris hilton and all those other skanks, and i can't for the life of me understand why americans fuss over celebrity so much. it's really quite pathetic. but anyway, i heard that she may be looking at 6 years in jail for possession of cocaine. are you kidding me? that is ridiculous. what purpose could possibly be served in putting someone like that in jail. if they wanna jail her for a few weeks for DUI than fine. but years in prison for having coke. i don't know who, other than DH, would agree with that. anyway, i'm tired. i'm gonna watch the movie "Breach." and maybe, just maybe, i'll light up a spliff.
Posted: 30 Jul 2007 18:17
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Quote: my sense of morality doesn't shift with the wind. i'm not even sure what you mean. please elaborate.
What I mean is your sense of morality is subject to change based on popular opinion or the current political climate. What you deem wrong today, you may very well change your mind about tomorrow if you think the hipsters have changed the game plan.
The praying thing healing sick was in reference to actual test studies that have been done. Heard it on the news and read it on a news site a few months ago.
Quote: well the courts and the jails are filled right now
And take a really long moment to think about why our jails are so filled now, and it isn't just for non-violent drug users. Two, why can't non-violent users just stop taking the drugs? Whoops, forgot it's terribly addictive isn't it.
You know I'm right about everything, you just can't admit it without admitting you're wrong.
You want it both ways. You want to be an animal, but you want to have a concience and use a moral authority based on your own goodness which exists because you are a moral being created by sheer chance, yet since we all are all animals we are tragically brutal and destructive to ourselves, the environment etc, etc, but yet since we are animals it's all about survival of the fittest really and who cares about anybody else but me anyhow. Am I following this correctly? If I'm an animal what incentive do I have to be good other than the law, and why is there a law if we are all animals? Cats and dogs don't answer to any legal authority of their own creation.
__________________
Don't mess with me...I'm like a super BABY!!!
