| Posted: 16 Jun 2007 18:44 |
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In the recent Action Comics #849 Superman tangles with a religious cult, but the controversial question is...was it supposed to represent religion in general or the relgious right or should the story be taken at face value? Could the writers of Superman comics been checking out our board and decided to go out on a limb and give us an example of how Superman relates to Christianity.
You all will have to read it for yourselves to come up with your own conclusions but here is the basics of what happened. You might want to check out the first part of the story too from Action 848.
A new super powered individual from a small communistic country attacks his country's military who has been trying get rid of his church, basically to that effect anyway. Well you know how Superman is about killing even if its communistic soldiers so this new super dude gets into it with Superman. The new superdude who is named Redemption. According to the story seems to be a misled individual who really gets his powers from the leader of the church through some kind of psychic thing.
In the end Redemption stands up to the old evil Reverend and his church breaks up.
I don't want to say this is clearly against religion or anything it just seems that the writer may not be entirely for it. After all he could have just as easily made the commies the bad guys, and had Redemption fighting for freedom. On the other hand there are cults in the world, and they can be very harmful. As a Christian, and taking into consideration today's anti-Christian climate I think I would have wrote a story where Redemption was the hero fighting for freedom. Just to make sure there were no misunderstanding of where I stood.
A couple of things that stood out in the story. One scene I liked where Superman is fighting Redemption he thinks to himself, "I would rather not turn this into me vs God. I don't like the odds" I thought that was cool especially since some writers tend to take Superman too far referring to him as a god of some sort. I know this usually is like a reference to the ancient Greek gods I suppose, but I like the emphasis of Superman to be on the man part, and not try to make him into something more.
The part I found disappointing, and yet true to the Superman character at the same time was the conversation between Clark and Martha. Clark wonders if his leaving the Kent's church at the age of 14 had disappointed her. She says no, and states, "Clark my faith was my own. I brought it into your life so that you could have a foundation for making your own choices" So here it shows us that Superman's basic truth, justice and the American Way stand could be attributed to his early days in church, but why would he stop going at the age of 14? Is he clinging to his Kryptonian heritage over his American roots? This bothered me. Plus the idea that Martha would be so cool with it. Not very realistic at least from the perspective of farmers from Kansas. Sounds more like a modern liberal big city perspective to me.
Finally one exchange I felt was straight from the liberal hand book came toward the end with Clark vs the Reverend conversation.
Rev - What have we done wrong, Mr. Kent? We were the ones being attacked. What about the housing we built in bahdnesia--? The medical clinic in Nvasir?The school we built in Columbia?
Clark - Reverend all of those good works come with strings attached--and often an intrusion into the culture or laws of other lands.
Huh, am I missing something here? Is Clark Kent taking the side of communism over religion. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read in a comic book quite frankly. Of course the point of any religion is to gain converts, and any culture by it's nature tries to win others into it's ideaology. America is the only place in the world lately that thinks it's wrong to be proud of our heritage. Only Christianity in our culture is deemed evil to seek to convert non-believers. I'm afraid this is where they were going with this story.
But I suggest you read it for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Maybe I'm just misreading it. Maybe the writer just didn't mean to leave negative conclusions to his story, but I guess that's what can happen when you take on serious subjects in a comic book story. Here's hoping that Superman continues to not only fight for truth, justice, and the American way in the future, but that he actually understands it.
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2007 19:02 |
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Well, it is sad to hear the writers are going in this direction with the comics. Truthfully, I have not read a Superman comic since his death/return. However, with the anti-Christian climate in the U.S. today, this storyline does not come as a surprise to me. It is a shame that we live in a society that allows the Ten Commandments to be removed from a courthouse and where there are constant claims of "seperation of church and state" when it is not even mentioned as such in the constitution. Again, with the latest Superman film (which I found to be an invective representation of what we know of Superman) not even correctly stating that he fights for Truth, Justice, and the American Way, this comic sounds like it is following the trend.
__________________The Bible is so powerful. It's not to be left on your shelf. It's to outline even the simplest scriptures that can mean so much in building yourself up.
"I am God's workmanship." (Ephesians 2:10)
"I have been redeemed and forgiven." (Colossians 1:14)
"I am the salt and the light of the earth." (Matthew 5:13-14) 
David Harvey
Morrisville, NC
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2007 19:34 |
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Yeah, for some reason a lot of comic writers seem to be tilted toward liberal ideaology. As much as I would love to be working in the comic field I wonder if my being conservative is a handicap in relation to my ability to be hired?
Politics is a strange thing nowadays. Brainwashing seems to be the plan of attack for liberalism. America's move toward the left has been by a little bit here and a little bit there in very slow increments till folks are so far gone they don't even realize where they came from originally. A long time ago libs got smart and realized they could never change minds over night so they got in the entertainment business and have been pushing and pushing a little at a time over the years till we've got where we are today.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2007 08:07 |
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how can you say the liberals are into brainwashing tim?? the church and the republicans got the market cornered on that one. how do you think you guys got into iraq? through lies and propoganda. and tim, the entertainment industry is in it for money, it's run by capitalists. if it can make money, they'll make it. they are like drug dealers...it's all about supply and demand. people want drugs and they're just giving the people what they want. same with the movies. people like porn. people like nudity. people like violence. thats the problem with the religious right. they're judgemental and nosy. they are like the 21st century puritans. if they don't like it, it has to be outlawed. close down strip joints, throw people in jail when all they've done is sell or smoke marijuana. they are outraged at seeing janet jacksons nipple at the superbowl. don't they have anything better to do? and judging by their support of the war, they'd be just as likely to burn fags... uh, i mean muslims...uh i mean witches at the stake. don't you guys see yourselves when you watch ned flanders?? the christian right is so ass backwards in their views that its almost sad if it wasn't so pathetic. you guys talk about brainwashing but the religious right is all about brainwashing. how else do you explain people that don't believe anything scientific, but believe in magic stories from the bible. no... superman is the polar opposite of religion and america. thank god (no pun intended)
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2007 11:15 |
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LOL, boy do i hate religion. actually i don't. i just hate when people use it as an excuse to try and descriminate against others. if you say the magic word, religion, you can get away with anything. how did the catholic church get away with abusing children? religion. how do polygamists get away with having 12 year old wives? religion. why are muslim women kept in burkas? religion. i just have absolutely no regard for religions that preach intolerance of others. you might say i can't tolerate intolerance.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2007 17:32 |
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throw people in jail when all they've done is sell or smoke marijuana. I know it is pointless to point this out, given the author of this quote, but I'll do it anyway for fun.  It's not just "selling or smoking maijuana", in many cases people are so hooked on the drug they run out of finances to buy the stuff, so they result to criminal means of obtaining funds with which to purchase the drugs. There are many more points I could make, but I don't want to make this a long post so I'll close it here.
__________________The Bible is so powerful. It's not to be left on your shelf. It's to outline even the simplest scriptures that can mean so much in building yourself up.
"I am God's workmanship." (Ephesians 2:10)
"I have been redeemed and forgiven." (Colossians 1:14)
"I am the salt and the light of the earth." (Matthew 5:13-14)
David Harvey
Morrisville, NC
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2007 20:39 |
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people don't get hooked on MJ. crack yes. heroin yes. dope...no.almost everybody i knew in high school smopked dope and not one of them turned to crime. a gram of dope costs 10$ and you get deals on larger amount. for example, 50$ for a quarter, which is 7 grams.why do you think MJ is the first drug kids usually try? cause it's cheap.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2007 20:54 |
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and please don't post back about it being a "gateway" drug. people say that cause it's the first drug people usually try. MJ is harmless, except maybe for your lungs but still not as bad as cigarettes. i'm for the legalization of all drugs. but for now... let's just start with MJ. who is the gov't. to tell me what i can and can't put in my body. and don't say cause they care. if they did than smokes and alcohol would be illegal. how many people die of lung disease, liver disease, drinking and driving etc. etc. no they want you hooked on their legal perscription drugs. that's why you see commercials everynight on TV asking:"are you tired... are you depressed...are you sad... are you sore...does your back hurt... do your teeth hurt...etc. etc. they keep naming symptoms till they hit on one you have. oh my you think... i must be sick. i should get that. just watch the next cold medication commercial and you'll see what i mean. if the US could produce the quality of coke and weed that is out there... it would be legal. but they can't. there are lots of reasons for this. if i had time i would get into it. maybe later tonight when i get home from work.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2007 23:02 Last Edited By: Tim |
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Zod this is what you should have been addressing.
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Clark vs the Reverend conversation.
Rev - What have we done wrong, Mr. Kent? We were the ones being attacked. What about the housing we built in bahdnesia--? The medical clinic in Nvasir?The school we built in Columbia?
Clark - Reverend all of those good works come with strings attached--and often an intrusion into the culture or laws of other lands.
Huh, am I missing something here? Is Clark Kent taking the side of communism over religion. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read in a comic book quite frankly.
The story was that our beloved superhero was touting communism over building hospitals and schools because Lord have mercy it might interfere with some culture.
What's this stuff you're going on about
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how did the catholic church get away with abusing children? religion. how do polygamists get away with having 12 year old wives? religion. why are muslim women kept in burkas? religion. i just have absolutely no regard for religions that preach intolerance of others. you might say i can't tolerate intolerance.
I just want to say that your points don't have any impact on the original discussion. What's the point you are trying to make? Should we outlaw relgious freedom because evil men sometimes pretend to be religious saints? Evil men don't always come with a mask and a gun. Sometimes they come as angels of light. Sometimes good people even do terrible things.
But you know you are being a lot more hypocritical than the people you protest. You really are. You know good and well the score. You're just trying to make excuses so you can live like hell. Take me I'm not perfect, and I know it, but I can still tell the difference between right and wrong, and something tells me you can too. Trying to say drugs are ok. You know how long it took me to quit smoking cigerettes. That was just cigerettes. It took a miracle from God for me to quit.
Shoot you'd think because I'm a Christian I'm responsible for some priest a 100 miles away. No offense to Catholics, but if I was a Catholic going to a church with a pervert, I'd kick his ass. The strong should never never take advantage of the weak, but you see that's a whole other discussion. Once again I ask you to look at the initial point of my topic. Ok. Enuff said.
Sorry for the language. I just saw Die Hard and I'm feeling like kicking some butt now. Anybody want a piece of me. Come get some.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 00:08 |
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Sorry for the language. I just saw Die Hard and I'm feeling like kicking some butt now. Anybody want a piece of me. Come get some. Yippie Kay-Ay!!! Go get'em Tim!!
__________________The Bible is so powerful. It's not to be left on your shelf. It's to outline even the simplest scriptures that can mean so much in building yourself up.
"I am God's workmanship." (Ephesians 2:10)
"I have been redeemed and forgiven." (Colossians 1:14)
"I am the salt and the light of the earth." (Matthew 5:13-14)
David Harvey
Morrisville, NC
davidharvey25@nc.rr.com |
| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 03:17 |
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That was a awesome movie by the way!
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 06:17 |
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like i said... ass backwards. if i felt it was worth my time i'd respond but you can't talk to these people. they accept noone but others who share there views.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 06:18 |
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oh yeah... i loved die hard too. awesome but part 4 looks crappy.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 07:35 |
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oh yeah, the "strings attached" Superman was talking about are the fact that in order for you to help them and build a school or hospital, they have to adopt your culture and religion. you think that it's ok to invade a country and impose your democracy. not only do you think it's ok, you actually think your doing them a favor. and then you pat yourselves on the back cause you built a school. hey, convert the heathens right? i quit smoking too. a pack a day since i was 17. it didn't take a miracle from god. all it took was "the patch" and a little will-power. we're all hypocrites tim. but i don't judge people based on there sexual preference or things that really aren't any of my or your business. i only judge people on what they say and do. so i judge the christian right and all religions for that matter, because i hear what they say and i see how they judge others and try to impose their will on others. the christian right is no different than the islamic fundamentalists. same goals, different religion. whats the goal? a world where everyone is like them. because they think they know best. they know whats good for the rest of us. you better keep your kids homeschooled cause by the time they hit high school, they're probably gonna get the crap kicked out of them. i'm not saying it's right but they will be considered weirdos and weirdos get picked on. i'm just trying to help.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 09:07 |
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i'm sorry to post again but i was telling my GF about our discussion and she wanted to write some things. she's alot more level headed than me so here goes... (from here on in it's her, you can call her ursa69)...I think that people should be free to believe what they wish to believe. The problem comes when beliefs motivate them to hurt themselves or others. I think that religion gives people a sense of order and purpose in their life because it is a scary thought to think that things are random and disorganized, and that it is up to individual beings to make the right decisions. It is nicer to think that there is some ultimate purpose or order to things. It is terrifying to think that we are here randomly and by chance. Religion gives people a sense of meaning and direction in their lives and it is reassuring to belong to a religious group as it gives people a sense of belonging and a sense of family, a sense of being a part of a whole bigger than themselves and it makes them feel that they are unique and special. I understand that people feel good about being cared for by a group of people that share their beliefs and values. One of my points is kind of related to cultural relativism (which is the idea that one's beliefs should be judged according to the context out of which they came). Of course one could argue that there are universal standards that are independent of any individual culture that should be applied to all cultures but I still think that we are all born to certain parents in a certain cultural situation by chance. The way this is related to religion is that if you happened to be born in another country with a different religion or belief system, then you would most likely believe the religion or belief system of that culture that you were born into. Religion is learned. You do not know a religion without being taught it. A newborn baby does not know a specific religion. A baby does know love and caring. I believe that these things, love and caring, are universal and that they should be what is important, rather than the specific beliefs of a certain religion. What matters is caring for others and the world around us to the best of our abilities. If religion makes us think that we are better or superior to others it blocks our ability to love the world and others around us. Putting down a certain group, including putting down a certain religion or belief in nature or whatever else someone might believe is harmful. It is detrimental and hurtful because I believe that all religions and those who don't have any religion all have things to learn from each other that could help each other to better themselves and others. The reason that I believe this is that religions have been around for millions of years and all of them, whether you actually believe in religion or not, must have some wisdom in some of their teachings. I believe that one should take the good out of religions and just out of people in general, whether they are religious or not. I do not think it is necessary to label oneself as being one religion or another as it is the ideas that matter. The ideas I am talking about are regarding being able to see one's life in perspective so that we can see that we are all part of a natural world and need to respect our world and treat it with love. Of course that includes common sense things regarding not hurting others by taking things from them and not murdering etc. I have a lot to learn about the different philosophies of all the religions but I would learn them as in regards to how they can help me help the world, not how they can help me. My point is I think that the reward that compels many people to believe in religion is a self serving one (I mean if it makes one do good then it is not a big deal if the ultimate motive is self serving though, but unfortuantely religion does not always motivate people to do good)-the selfish motive is wanting to live forever. I believe that if religion did not offer the reward of living forever, not very many people would believe in it. I also think that wanting everlasting life is wanting to be a god which is suppsed to be a "sin". I mean I don't have a real problem with someone wanting to live forever, but I do believe it is the ulimate in selfish motives. Think aobut it, what could be more self serving than wanting to live forever? Also just thinkging about how good things will be once you are dead can prevent you appreciating all of the good this world and those around you are. If you just keep thinking things will be perfect after I have exited this material body, you are not giving life a chance to give you its beautiful gift. I believe that all we need is this world, this one life, as life as meaning in regards to challenge and danger. If everything were perfect there would be no adventure no challenge no change, everything would just be perfect. For a person to be alive there needs to be the potential for death or else all of the activities that the person does have no meaning. If you are never going to die, you can just do anything and it does not matter because there are no consequences as you will just go on living no matter what you do.
I have no problem with people believing what they want to believe, it is just that when these beliefs make them hurt others, just because they are different, or act in different ways or believe different things, that is going against life. We can learn from each others differences rather than making fun of them. Honestly, this may seem naive, but I do believe that all people, no matter how bad they seem, do have some good in them. I mean there are really evil people, but I don't think someone is born totally evil. I think that these people did bad things and others then agressed against them so the evil doers kept getting more and more isolated. I don't believe in the death penalty because I think that killing the killer is being just as bad as the killer originally was. I also believe that all war is wrong. Killing is cruel and hurtful. One could argue that if you do not kill the killer he or she will just keep killing others so you are protecting the innocent by killing the one killer. One could also argue that it is impossible to rehabilitate some criminals and that these criminals do not deserve a chance. It is also true that some people believe in retribution and payback and they think that killing the killer sets a precedent that will scare other would be killers away from killing because they can see that if they go out and kill, they themselves will die also. I would have to think more deeply in regards to rebuting these points, but I still feel that killing for any reason is wrong, although I do think that it might be ok to have mercy killing where someone is in so much pain and suffering that they choose to die. That is a very difficult thing though becuase how do you know that the person is really in so much pain that their life is not worth living-they might just feel like that for the moment, but physically if the person cannot live without life support machines and has no conscious thougt I may possibly say it is their right to choose not to live as really it may be said that it is the machines doing the living, not the person.
I think that people are a type of primate because we are 1 percent genetically different than the chimpanzee. I think that we were not put here to rule the earth, but are part of the earth. When the last tree is cut when the last river is polluted, when the last animal is killed senselessly, then they will realize that they cannot eat money. We are just a part of the natural ecosystem and we need to realize that if we destroy our world for the sake of man made ideals of greed and delusions of ownership and power we are killing ourselves in the process. We do not own the land, we are just borrowing it from our children. My point is that I think that money and countries, and owning land and having a huge amount of power are just things that people made up. Money is just paper and no one owns any land, ownership is just a concept that people made up. All creatures of the world live on the land and share it . You can pay someone to live on a certain part of land and call your land a certain name and call your beliefs a certain type of religion, but really we are all creatures of one world and we all share the same basic needs and fears. How we deal with our insecurities and how we cope with our own impending mortality shares certain universal components, so instead of saying this or that variety of belief is superior, we should focus on learning what we can from all people, regardless if they believe this or that or do that or this. All people, both good and bad act for some reason and I think it is best not to pass judement as one can never learn in this way. From the person who has gone a bad way one can learn. What factors caused this badness to happen? What can we do in our world to make things better so that people are less likely to be bad. Instead of just pointing fingers at certain bad individuals we need to analyze the environment around all people to see how it also plays a part. It is easy to point fingers and call another person bad, because this in turn makes ourselves ( the one's pointing the finger) make us feel better about ourselves because the finger pointers feel that because they have appointed themselves as being capable of judging others and deemed themselves to be better than the person they call bad, that they are in fact better, whether or not they really are or not. Just by saying that another person is bad they automatically feel better about themselves, whether or not their judgement on the other person is based on any actual grounds.
Therefore I think it is best to keep an open mind. You can believe whatever you want strongly, but do not let this make you judge others harshly for no good reason.It is good to be always open to new ideas and new points of view as understanding someone else's point of view can help you understand your own ideas better as the contrast can help you see what it is that you truly think and also see what things you share with others who, on the surface, seem so different and incompatable with you. I believe there are universal ideas needs and thoughts and feelings that all people share and that by living as one world, rather than calling ourselves this or that label (eg my country or beliefs or religion or whatever are better than yours) we can truly create a better world that agrees with all people's ideas of what good is.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 09:07 |
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yeah, what she said.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 10:28 |
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except for the death penalty. i'm all for it but the system has gotta change first. ie: minorities and the poor not getting proper representation, or getting sentensed to death while a rich white person may only get life for the same crime. one innocent person being executed is one too much. which begs the question... if you start executing people on a regular basis, isn't it inevitable that some innocent person will eventually be executed?
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 14:41 |
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oh yeah, the "strings attached" Superman was talking about are the fact that in order for you to help them and build a school or hospital, they have to adopt your culture and religion. you think that it's ok to invade a country and impose your democracy That's not even what the story was about. The writer basically had Superman condemning missionary work, and on what planet do missionarys come in with guns and tanks? Stop sidetracking the issue to get on your own soap box Zod.
And you better watch Die Hard 4 before you say it's crappy. It's only crappy if you don't like lots of action and guns. I know, I know you'd rather go on a peace march, but believe me it's a good movie.
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i only judge people on what they say and do. bs. you judge people for not believing the way you do. It sort of a catch isn't it. you judge people for judging.
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you better keep your kids homeschooled cause by the time they hit high school, they're probably gonna get the crap kicked out of them Don't think so pal unless they grow them really big nowadays. My kid is pretty big kid, and two we don't live in San Francisco. This kind of statement just shows you're hypocrisy. If I said something about your side getting beat up. I'd be a basher of some sort.
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that I believe this is that religions have been around for millions of years Not to be mean, but I thought you people thought humans have only been on the earth for thousands of years. Wasn't it dinosaurs for millions and people for thousands?
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I have no problem with people believing what they want to believe, it is just that when these beliefs make them hurt others, just because they are different, or act in different ways or believe different things, that is going against life.
This is basically the Christian philosophy that was created the United States. Christianity has been the foundation for civilized government in all the world. America was formed a Christian nation that allowed any other beliefs as long as that person was a decent citizen obeying the laws etc.
Would you please just answer this one question which is the point of the topic.
Isn't it weird that a comic book superhero would basically condemn missionary work? Not talking about a war. Focus here. Missionary work. That means a missionary goes into a country usually poor, and builds a church, maybe a school, and maybe eventually a hospital. The people learn from the missionary, they usually are healthier, and even happier. The missionaries ain't goin in there with a bazooka saying come lest we blow your dang head off. They are saying come to Church and we love you. We just had a missionary lady come to our church who has sacraficed her whole life in service because she loves God, and loves the people of this African tribe she's helped minister too. Her whole life! You people make it sound like missionaries are really religious mercenaries. Get a grip.
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2007 21:46 |
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They are saying come to Church and we love you. We just had a missionary lady come to our church who has sacraficed her whole life in service because she loves God, and loves the people of this African tribe she's helped minister too. Her whole life! You people make it sound like missionaries are really religious mercenaries. Get a grip. Amen to that Tim!!
__________________The Bible is so powerful. It's not to be left on your shelf. It's to outline even the simplest scriptures that can mean so much in building yourself up.
"I am God's workmanship." (Ephesians 2:10)
"I have been redeemed and forgiven." (Colossians 1:14)
"I am the salt and the light of the earth." (Matthew 5:13-14)
David Harvey
Morrisville, NC
davidharvey25@nc.rr.com |
| Posted: 29 Jun 2007 02:43 |
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To the thread and no individual in particular...
Firstly, Marijuana kills brain cells just under the amount alcohol does, and no, noone becomes a desperate criminal for want/lack of it. There is still argument on both sides as to whether it is really a gateway drug or not, so while not resolved, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.
As for Clark's statement in the comic, try this. When you give someone something simple, it's usually just a gift to signify friendship or love. Sometimes it's an acknowledgement of a landmark or accomplishment. Not that I read that comic, but from what you've posted I can see it this way. We're talking about housing, schools and a medical clinic, not a simple gift. Gifts that the recipients don't know the benefactors personally enough just to accept blindly without thinking there will some sort of payment due for them. Now we take into account that the benefactor(s) is/are a religious group. This will bend a recipient to believe that the only way they can accept such a neccessity is to accept what that group is either founded on, or just their belief system as a whole. Let's say we see Lex building an orphanage in Suicide Slums. As readers we already know Lex is doing this for some ultimate(probably sinister) end. As for the inhabitants of that area, the majority probably well know what kind of man Lex is and will either see it as a ploy to gain something from them or a cover/smokescreen. For those that never heard of him somehow, I guarantee the remainder will be split between guessing the charitable motive and just simply being grateful.
Try it for yourself to see it firsthand in reality. When you're out and on line somewhere, buying coffee or movie tickets or even comic books> offer to pay for a complete stranger's coffee, ticket or comic and note the reaction. If you can afford it, try it with ten people and see what you get. People simply have a natural tendency to look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth. I think you're getting the wrong message from what the creators probably intended, but not having read it, I couldn't possibly say for sure.
On a final note, to blame a whole group for the wrongful actions of an individual or a few is simply naive, unfair, unfounded and simply harmful to yourself. I find it enough to believe this: the more faith I have in myself the less I worry about other's faith in just about anything. Take that as you will.
__________________Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
~V~
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| Posted: 29 Jun 2007 09:22 |
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finally, someone i can talk to.
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| Posted: 29 Jun 2007 12:24 |
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i just wanted to add a few points of rebuttal tim. first off, you're right, i did get off topic because the story was not about imposing their democracy. i was just trying to point out that, in the past, the catholic missionaries would go to villages to help and build schools etc. etc. but the natives would be made to accept the catholic faith or the help would stop. but as i said, i did get off topic so i apologize. second, i gotta say, and i mean no offense, but that comment about Die Hard only being crappy if you don't like action and guns. that is pretty typical point of view for an american. you people love your guns no matter how many people die. god forbid you can't buy an AK-47. but i think it (Die Hard4) will be crappy cause bruce willis sucks now, and it looks like the same old rehashed garbage hollywood keeps churning out. it's a cash grab for an actor who hasn't made a good movie in god knows how long! it's spelled O.R.I.G.I.N.A.L.I.T.Y. that comment is directed at hollywood, not you tim. and i LOVED Die Hard 1 and 2. thirdly, i do not judge people who don't believe like i do. i could care less. it's none of my business as long as it doesn't interfer with anyone else.. but the religious right and their silly backwards ideas do interfer with my life and others lives as well. they interfer by outlawing abortion. they interfer by outlawing assisted suicide. they interfer when the pope tells people in africa, who are ravaged by AIDS, that birth control is a sin. they interfer by outlawing gay marriage and gay adoption. as if a gay couple is not capable of loving and raising a child! what utter nonsense. they even try to interfer with our pass times. they wanna censor everything. hey, if your offended by something on TV, turn it off. if your against strip clubs, then don't patronize them. if you don't like porn, then don't go to adult video stores. but don't ruin my good time. so, yes, i judge the religious right cause they try to control what i can and can't do. fourth, i don't have a "side" and in order for me to be showing my "hypocrisy" i would have had to have actually called you a "basher" and you would have had to actually have said something about hitting me. but that statement was more of a joke than anything. i was basically making fun of homeschooled kids... not trying to be threatening. fifth, that was my girlfriend that wrote that about thousands of years instead of millions. i thought i made that clear at the beginning of the post? but anyway, she was just generalizing to make a point... how many years she said wasn't important. thousands, millions... the point was that religion has been around since humans have. six...i know you're not responsible for what some priest did to some cute little altar boy. but the organization that he belongs to (the catholic church) knew all about it and did nothing. the pope and those in charge actually held meetings about it on what they should do. so what did they do? they would just send the offending priest to a new church, where noone knew about the allegations, with brand new victims. would you patronize an organization if it's so called leaders behaved in such a morally bankrupt fashion? and lastly...i am going to go get the issue of Action Comics in question and i'll give you my take on it. and i don't think all missionaries are mercenaries. some, i'm quite sure, are genuinely good people trying to make a difference. i have nothing but the utmost respect for Mother Theresa. now there was a woman who didn't judge. and to pakratmak...i know about the research on MJ. and the possible negative consequences.my girlfriend is always telling me and i've done the research myself. but hey, i'd rather live 32 Mick Jagger years than 100 jerry falwell years years. boooring!! and i don't believe the "gateway drug" theory. weed, as i said, is cheap and readily available. that's why, i think, it's the first drug kids try. as far as people saying that: "yes, but then they move onto harder drugs." that's because there's only one way to go. MJ is the softest drug. it's purely recreational. in fact, i would even go as far to say that if anything is a gateway drug, why not alcohol? i got drunk before i ever got high. and so do most kids. but anyhow, there are many opinions on the subject from people much smarter than i. anyway, that's all. i'll post again after i read Action Comics #848 and #849.
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| Posted: 29 Jun 2007 15:46 |
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pakratmak I think you are missing the hidden agenda I saw in the comic. The message I saw seemed to be leaning toward the communistic socialist position that only government can do good, and religion is bad. In this world we need more good people to sacrafice in the name of God to help others not less. We've got enough folks who only think of themselves.
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finally, someone i can talk to No Satan hasn't posted yet. Just kidding. I had to say it, it just hit me. You have to give anybody named Zod a hard time. You know.
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but the natives would be made to accept the catholic faith or the help would stop. Well luckily I'm a baptist so I don't even have a horse in that race.
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you people love your guns no matter how many people die Dude you are just jumping to conclusion based on liberal bias. First of all I have two guns for protection. Everybody knows where they are, and the kid knows to respect fire arm safety as do we all. We don't pull the guns out without taking it very seriously. It's not a blasted video game. They are for protection. They aren't a fun toy to play with. A movie on the other hand is a movie. As long as it's not all blood and guts I like violence in movies. I hate horror movies that sear the concience toward the suffering of others, but that's another argument.
You need to see Die Hard before you knock it.
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but the religious right and their silly backwards ideas do interfer with my life and others lives as well. they interfer by outlawing abortion. they interfer by outlawing assisted suicide. they interfer when the pope tells people in africa, who are ravaged by AIDS, that birth control is a sin. they interfer by outlawing gay marriage and gay adoption. as if a gay couple is not capable of loving and raising a child! what utter nonsense. You are determined to turn this into a political fight aren't you? Again I can't speak for Catholics. Birth control is fine by me and most of the religios right as they get their marching orders from me and our message board. Religion didn't outlaw gay marriage, God did. You see God created marriage between a man and woman back in Genesis. If gay people want to hang out together they don't need to step on our territory and try to make it religious because marriage is a religious union backed up by the law. I really shouldn't even argue with you about it. You don't seem to understand where we get right and wrong from. You think it's all relative to the person or some kind of hogwash like that. If you just go on your concience you do know that after a while you can get it to accept anything if you train it long enough. What was wrong 50 years ago is still wrong today. I think it's a shame you libs want to bring kids into your damnable crusades regardless of how they are affected. And don't act all backward self righteous back at me about it either. I spend most of my time on this board talking about Superman and the content within the comics and the movies and you always come looking for a fight about God only knows what. I understand the need for debate, but I also recognize a chip on the shoulder.
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but don't ruin my good time Well now the first honest thing you've said. That's what it's all about isn't it? It's not about right and wrong or the lives of children, society's decay, or anything else. You don't want anybody making you feel guilty.
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they would just send the offending priest to a new church, where noone knew about the allegations, with brand new victims. would you patronize an organization if it's so called leaders behaved in such a morally bankrupt fashion? yet again no offense to Catholics who I'm sure are ticked about this kind of thing as well, but if I was in charge and i'm not. I'd send the jerks to jail. If I was in charge of making laws I'd say hang the bastards, but then I'm a very mean conservative religious nut job. But hey if this is sticking to your craw and you happen to go to a Catholic church you need to organize within the church and see if you can't get something done about it. If this happened at my independent baptist church the preacher would go to jail and never preach again. At least that's what I believe would happen. I've never been to a church with that kind of thing. I can't see how anybody could get away with it unless the Pope is hiding the evidence from the cops.
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i am going to go get the issue of Action Comics in question and i'll give you my take on it Please do. I wish you'd have done that to start with, and I wouldn't have writer's cramp now.
And if you are taking drugs like MJ, how do you know if you can trust your perception of reality enough to argue with me anyway?
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| Posted: 30 Jun 2007 02:42 |
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Again, have not read it and have no intention of doing so. I can only go by what you posted. Now for some follow-up.
The only agenda of any comic is to sell copies and the advertising contained therein which branches to related collectibles and other merchandise. Money is the absolute purpose. As far as what the writer was going for? Based on that one line of dialog, I still stand behind what I posted earlier.
Not that this is probably the place for it and I certainly don't want this to escalate, but communism had nothing to do with anti-religion. If anything, that form of goverment relied heavily on religion and was based mainly as an economic system. Back to the money issue again.
As for the Mick Jagger/Jerry Falwell comparison, I would be willing to bet they've had similar amounts of groupies and similar amounts of experiences. I'd personally take more years than shorter, supposedly more glamorous ones.
__________________Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
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| Posted: 30 Jun 2007 16:05 |
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communism had nothing to do with anti-religion. If anything, that form of goverment relied heavily on religion and was based mainly as an economic system Don't think of this as being overly argumentive but I'm not sure I follow that line of reasoning. Where in the world did communism ever rely on religion unless you mean they demanded worship of the state? Stalin for example was one that demanded religious art in the public's homes be replaced with images of himself.
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I would be willing to bet they've had similar amounts of groupies and similar amounts of experiences I don't think Jerry Falwell had near as easy a life as his opponents might imagine. Who wants to take stands that cause you to be rediculed and hated unless you really believe in what you say. It would have been a lot easier to be popular like some of the TV preachers and declare everything and everybody is good. He would have made a lot more money that way. The main reason folks gave Falwell a hard time anyway is because he voiced his opinion on politics. After that everything he ever said and did was monitored for mistakes. Politics is a brutal war sometimes, and a very unfair game at that. Take Billy Graham. Everybody likes him for the most part, but he never says anything about politics which is not necessarily a bad thing. Everybody has their own calling. There are some preachers out there that deserved redicule but I won't mention their names. The ones that only care about money get found out on their own without having to be overly scrutinized by the public. I can tell a fake usually pretty easy. They never stand for anything.
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I'd personally take more years than shorter, supposedly more glamorous ones. Yeah, I'm much more into living longer than living fast and dying young bit. Don't get me wrong I think James Dean and Elvis are cool, but I'd rather be like Jack Lalaine. He's a old dude like in his 90's they say is as strong as someone in his 30's that's famous for his health shows and products. Don't know how he lives morally or whatever, but he sure knows about health.
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| Posted: 30 Jun 2007 23:03 |
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No Satan hasn't posted yet. ROTFLMBO!!!!
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I think it's a shame you libs want to bring kids into your damnable crusades regardless of how they are affected. And don't act all backward self righteous back at me about it either. I spend most of my time on this board talking about Superman and the content within the comics and the movies and you always come looking for a fight about God only knows what. I understand the need for debate, but I also recognize a chip on the shoulder. You hit the nail on the head Tim!! The fact is that liberals almost always appear to be angry about somthing or other, and they think that if they are angry you should be angry too. If you are not angry, then liberals will harp, moan, and complain on end to try to get you angry as they think you are stupid for being content/happy in anything.
__________________The Bible is so powerful. It's not to be left on your shelf. It's to outline even the simplest scriptures that can mean so much in building yourself up.
"I am God's workmanship." (Ephesians 2:10)
"I have been redeemed and forgiven." (Colossians 1:14)
"I am the salt and the light of the earth." (Matthew 5:13-14)
David Harvey
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| Posted: 30 Jun 2007 23:55 |
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yeah, I hate getting all riled, but nowadays the way people look at things is backwards and upside down to the point it drives me crazy. Libs tend to forget we (meaning me that are in our 30's and we that were paying attention) watched as these new ideas and political movements came on the scene mainly in the 90's. Suffice it to say I didn't suddenly become hypnotized into believing I had been thinking wrong all my life because some stupid sitcom on TV said I was wrong or some drugged up rocker suddenly decided to be open minded. Some of those guys on MTV have minds so open you could drive a truck through the empty space.
I mean who the heck decided that Elton John was the best singer of all time? The guy looks like my aunt. Give me Van Halen or Elvis any day, and what genius decided MTV should stop playing music and start telling us what they thought. I mean who cares what they think. I don't need drug induced opinions anyhow. If I wanted to hear talk, I'd watch the news. Of course I haven't watched MTV since the 90's I guess. I miss the 80's. I miss Ronald Reagan. I miss the days when men were allowed to be men instead of politically correct mind numbed sissy robots, and I'm don't even consider myself a tough guy really, but people nowadays make me feel like Rambo with all this touchy feel my pain, feel sorry for me and everybody else crap. Of course there's some dudes at the gym that bench 500 pounds, but I bet I can run on the treadmill faster than they can, or play b ball better, or something. I mean where's the spirit of competition.
I'm in the mood to complain. I just need to get it off my chest. I wonder if anybody will feel my pain?
Of course you can't say all people are weenies these days. There's a lot of really brave young men and women fighting in Iraq that make me proud to be an American! I just know I'm going to catch hell for saying all this. Ahh who cares.
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2007 00:01 |
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I miss Ronald Reagan Ditto!! He was a great American that said what he thought in plain and simple terms, none of this politically correct bull!! Sure hope Fred Thompson will decide to run, I think he's the closest we've seen to Reagan's ideals in a long time.
Quote: Of course you can't say all people are weenies these days. There's a lot of really brave young men and women fighting in Iraq that make me proud to be an American! I just know I'm going to catch hell for saying all this. Ahh who cares.
Darn right!! Last I checked the democrats had not removed our freedom of speech!! Thank goodness the amnesty bill was squashed!!
__________________The Bible is so powerful. It's not to be left on your shelf. It's to outline even the simplest scriptures that can mean so much in building yourself up.
"I am God's workmanship." (Ephesians 2:10)
"I have been redeemed and forgiven." (Colossians 1:14)
"I am the salt and the light of the earth." (Matthew 5:13-14)
David Harvey
Morrisville, NC
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2007 01:45 |
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We don't need MTV for opinions anymore. Most people unfortunately get their news from the Daily Show.
Libs are not backward or upside down, we apparently just think differently than you in a few places. Please don't condemn the whole lot of us for it, some of us are quite nice.
I think that people tend to forget that freedom of speech is there for everyone, not just people's opinions we like or can tolerate.
__________________Beneath this mask is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea Mr Creedy and ideas are bulletproof.
~V~
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2007 18:36 |
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I tell you what I won't hold being a liberal against you personally as long as you agree with everything I say.
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