| Posted: 27 Feb 2006 17:15 |
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I think Richard said somewhere that his wife worked with Singer on the X-men movies I believe. I think that's how he got to liking Singer's work.
As long as Superman comes across as a old fashioned farm boy scout with super abilities and there's no preachy liberal crap to make me sick I'll end up buying the movie for my Superman DVD collection.
Of coure I'll have to go see it in the theatre one way or the other. I'm reasonably confident it will turn out family friendly. We Superman fans may never like the suit, but at least Supes is getting the spotlight again. It's been quite a few years since the world believed a man could fly.
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| Posted: 27 Feb 2006 20:07 |
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Tim I could not agree with you more. I a mnot to satisfied with the suit but I will get over it I mean I was not to happy about the suits used in the X men movies but those movies turned out good so it is all good. I can not wait to see the movie. I have already put in for leave from work on the day the movie comes out. LOL. I am such a supergeek excuse the pun.
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| Posted: 28 Feb 2006 03:05 |
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__________________"What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not Fail?"
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| Posted: 18 Mar 2006 06:48 |
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Greets to all.
First off, it dosen't matter who is gay or not, because this movie is not a political statement.
The current trend of today's movies is to re-hash (destroy beyond all hope of recognition) well loved movies because the powers the be can't think up of nything else.Eg. Star Wars ep 1-3 CRAP reason too much CG. V.Little pratical work (Sets)((too much CG ruins good movies because anybody that works with computers long enough can spot the difference.. But Good Cg.. means you never knew it was used in the first place.))
The New Movie is going to be Heavy with CG.)
On another topic.. YES the new suit looks lame. So too is the idea of inserting this as a replacement for Movie 3 and 4.
Is the movie going to be set in the 70's early 80's or in the current years?
I've been a fan of Superman since The first movie. The question of who's gay (Writers or actors) or not really dosen't matter.
What does matter is the principle that Superman stands for.. Truth and Justice for all (NOT just Americans)
As a last note... The ROCK (Dwane).. Actor....?? You gotta be kidding..Although he might be perfect if they ever make another Comando Movie..
My Rant Over.. Feel free to berate the Irish but after the smile comes the fighting..!
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| Posted: 18 Mar 2006 08:53 |
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HA! Greetings Osiris_set. And welcome to the board. Solid points all around.
Brandon gay? Not so much, people. Not that it matters. All that matters is that when I leave the theater, I feel that I have watched a Superman movie. I don't care what the cast and/or crew does as long as the movie is good. Heck, they could have had an orgy every night and I wouldn't care.
I hear you on the CG. Anyone see "Sky Captain"? Sheesh. And I read that a contributing factor to the S/ not appearing on the cape is because the animators thought it would be too difficult. Lazy, lazy, LAZY! But like I've said before, the design is growing on me.
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| Posted: 18 Mar 2006 09:48 |
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I don't mind a lot of CG but SkyCaptain was just a bad movie and the bad CG wasn't to blame for it being a bad movie. I think the reason that they have more CG today is because they can be more elaborate with their detailed imaginations. I mean how would they have filmed the fight scene between Anakin and Obi-Won near a lava field. Think about if it weren't for CG it couldn't have been done because we don't actually have lava fields like that anywhere on this planet and if you see old movies with fake lava it just looks pathetic compared to these days. Another reason the use more CG today is simply because it is more cost effective. I mean it removes set building and sometimes stunt people. Mind you if the CG is not done well enough the movie just looks like garbage, ie; SkyCaptain. If they ever invent time travel modern movies are one of the first things that I would take back in time to show them how it will be done in the future.
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| Posted: 18 Mar 2006 18:26 Last Edited By: Tim |
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Ok guys let's be honest if Brandon was gay it would not be a good thing for this movie. The fact is this is a kid's movie when all is said and done. Sure all of us grownup types are going to be there watching the movie and reliving our childhoods, but when all is said and done it's a kids movie. For that reason I feel more comfortable the more moral the background as possible. I know Singer is gay. Odds are there are a lot more guys working on it that are as well. I can handle that as long as it doesn't mean liberal hidden messages in the movie. People have got to work for a living, but if the guy playing Superman was gay I would have to be honest and say that would be very disappointing.
The kid in me would like the Superman actor to be as close to the real thing in attitude as possible. Maybe that's silly but o well. I'm 35 almost and I still read comics. So what do you expect? Now if you make fun of me for it I'll have to ask you to step outside... and challenge you to a game of Bball or something.
But seriously I have nothing against anybody personally, but I'm going to keep the same values I have now when it's 2035, if I'm still alive. If your doing something wrong keep it to yourself. I don't want to know about it. I don't hang all my dirty laundry out for inspection. Why do the Hollywood guys have put it on bill boards and movie screens and scream to the top of their lungs their vices are good and you better like it or your just a big meanie?
Live and let live. Sure, but don't expect me to jump up and applaud you for it.
The thing with Superman is, I want him to represent Truth, Justice, and the American way, (which is good by the way for all the other countries of the world) and I'd like the think the guy playing Superman isn't a big super hypocrite party animal, drunken, sex maniac type. Would it be so wrong for kids to be able to look up to the guy? From what I've read though Brandon is an average kind of guy. No big Hollywood lifestyle yet. He's even said he wants to be a good influence on kids.
Now that's my rant. I don't like going over stuff that might make people mad, but every once in a while you got to stand up and be a man and take it. So let me have it. I'm sure somebody is going to want to beat me up now, but remember I love you guys.
I'm just an old fashioned kind of guy.
Oh and cgi is good when necessary, but there are times I would rather have the old methods used like if the scene calls for a snake then use a real snake.
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| Posted: 18 Mar 2006 23:18 |
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Well, I'm sure there is a hidden message in every movie. Whether it's a social statement or a joke that only the director's buddies can understand is what's really the question. I never saw Singer's X-Men movies as being hippie-liberal. I mean, humans hate mutants... that's kind of the theme that's been running through the books for 40 years. Maybe if anyone feels that there is a pro-gay message in the flicks (as some have speculated), they are just searching too deep into the meaning of the movie. It's entertainment afterall.
BTW. John Wayne is also from Iowa. He grew up 25 minutes away from where Brandon did. Stop on by and see the house where he lived. Good family fun. Don't stop by Brandon's old house... people still live there.
And superjon, you are right once again. There are a lot of benefits to CG. Maybe I was just bitter because Sky Captain gave me a huge headache. I think it was because they blurred everything to give it a "vintage" look and made it hard to focus on anything. But the robots were cool.
So I will rephrase my stance. CG is good but should not be use to compensate for a horrible script.
As for Tim, I am glad that you stick by your guns. And I can see your point about how the real life of actors can ruin the illusion of a movie. I just have always been able to seperate a person's personal life from their professional work. And like you I don't think we have to worry about Brandon. I think he will be a strong positive role model that will inspire the next generation of Superman fans!
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| Posted: 19 Mar 2006 00:32 |
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You know your not the only one I've heard complain about getting a head ache from cgi. There was a guy named Big John at my gym a couple of years ago that claimed to get a headache from watching the Hulk movie. He hated it.
CGI works sometimes and sometimes doesn't. When you can tell it's cgi then it's not working is the way I look at it. I notice right away in most cases when it's used for the Daredevil and Spiderman movies. Ruins the whole scene for me like the train scene where spidey almost goes off the end and he's standing in front of the train holding on for dear life. I think it was like the last shot or so. I would have skipped the last shot if I was in charge just to keep it real looking.
King Kong used cgi really well for the most part, but there is something about it sometimes that just doesn't register right in my brain. It tends to move very quickly sometimes and the images seem to register as a blur.
The star wars lava scene was one of those times when cgi worked great. I suppose for me having a background created by cgi works a lot better in some cases than having the characters cgi.
If it were up to me though I would use other methods whenever possible to give a movie more of a touch of realism.
On the actor thing I guess my problem is I looked up to actors too much growing up I suppose. You know the 1950's generation (before my time) really did have some great actors that took being a role model to kids as part of their job, like the Lone Ranger's Clayton Moore, and Roy Rogers for instance.
Hey check this out it's a video game trailer for Superman Returns wonder how much of it is based on what's going to be in the movie?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hl6MeakMkHE&search=superman%20returns
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| Posted: 19 Mar 2006 01:28 |
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__________________"What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not Fail?"
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| Posted: 19 Mar 2006 21:05 |
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i don't think it will be anything like the movie but, THE GAME LOOKS SO AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do any of you know what consoles it will be out on?
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 01:17 |
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Superman is a fictional character...the character was born from a comic book. This fictional character is whatever a writer or producer or director wants him to be...whether a comic book, TV show, movie or stage play. So...we have TRUTH...JUSTICE...THE AMERICAN WAY. Lets look at JUSTICE...have blacks, as one example, in AMERICA been treated with JUSTICE for most of their existence in this country? I don't think so. TRUTH...has the current administration in Washington really been pillars of TRUTH with regard to the war in Iraq? Do our congressional and senatorial leaders...the CARE TAKERS of "THE AMERICAN WAY" truly serve THE AMERICAN WAY on behalf of it's people...or do they better serve their own interest and those who donate large sums of cash to their elections? The whole discussion in this forum about Bryan Singer being gay or Brandon Routh's MAYBE being gay...and the vicious, hostile attitude towards these two people and this subject by some here...really makes me proud of THE AMERICAN WAY...THE AMERICAN WAY...isn't it suppose to be about FREEDOM...LIBERTY...BROTHERHOOD TOWARDS YOUR FELLOW MAN? Oh...but that doesn't apply to a gay film producer...who dares to make a movie called "SUPERMAN RETURNS" and who might exploit ever so slightly the sexuality of the actor playing the lead in this movie....that's "preachy liberalism." OH but...the BATMAN movies...produced by a heterosexual...THE AMERICAN WAY guy...does anyone remember Nicole Kidman's HOT, SEXY skin tight...shiny black CATWOMAN costume...pretty arousing wasn't it? Okay...the CATWOMAN character...she's kinda on the dark side...a bit of a tramp like character. Well...how about WONDER WOMAN...remember gorgeous Linda Carter and her sexy...revealing costume? There's another fictional superhuman icon...who's story was produced by a true blue...THE AMERICAN WAY...type of heterosexual producer. THE AMERICAN WAY...good old double standards.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 05:54 |
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huh. Good point, goatherder.
That reminds me. Since you joined the board I started watching the George Reeves Superman on the American Life Network. Those are good. I really like how Lois reacts to Clark. But anyway, last week was part two of the episode where little bald men come out of a hole that was dug 6 miles deep.
What makes that episode relavent to this thread is that Superman did not discriminate against the little bald men. He stood up to the lynch mob... a bunch of people that wanted to destroy the men because they were different. Because the mob did not understand.
Another thing to consider, if you look beyond the fiction of stories, is that Superman was created by a talented Jewish team that loved science fiction. I don't think that this makes Superman any more Jewish than Bryan Singer is going to make Superman gay. Mr. Singer is a phenominal director and I think he will do a great job with his depiction. I hear that the upcoming trailer is breathtaking and I can't wait to see it.
And it was Michelle Pfeiffer who wore the shiny black Catwoman costume. Nicole Kidman showed off her cleavage in Batman Forever. I know that they tried to make Uma Thurman look sexy in Batman & Robin.... but I think they failed. Trampy is not sexy.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 16:22 |
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Sorry goatherder, just because America isn't perfect doesn't mean it's not great. If you had to live in a communist or some other kind of repressive government, you'd kiss the toe of the Statue of Liberty, assuming you live in America of course.
For the record, I believe in loving people, but not necessarily what the people do, and you can scream gayness is a like being black, chinese or whatever till your blue in the face, but I still say it's a action like smoking a cigerette or drinking booze.
I don't hate people that drink booze, but I wouldn't want Superman flying through the air with a bud in one hand and a cigerette in his mouth either. That just wouldn't be Superman.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 19:44 |
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Tim...I live in America...born here...as were the four or five generations before me...and WOULD NOT nor DO I HAVE TO KISS the Statue of Liberty...nor wrap myself in a flag to prove my love for my country. You're quite right...America isn't perfect...and it's the imperfect conduct of our government and some of our leaders, that has tarnished the country's GREATNESS. The point you seem to miss about TRUTH...JUSTICE...THE AMERICAN WAY is that these are suggestive terms. What is TRUTH? What is JUSTICE? What is THE AMERICAN WAY? The answers depend upon the people you speak to....and their life experiences. I didn't scream "GAYNESS" is like being black...you made that analogy...again missing the point about JUSTICE...and the historical treatment of black people in America. Now the GAY thing...Bryan Singer is a film producer...who's gay...so what...if he was heterosexual...the issue of GAYNESS and Brandon Routh's wearing of a Superman costume...that the cut of briefs are two inches shorter than the style Christopher Reeve wore, wouldn't be raised. Being GAY is NOT an action. Drinking and smoking are actions. Driving a car is an action. For argument sake...assume Brandon Routh is gay...his playing a FICTIONAL role, flying around in a Superman costume has no impact on his performance or the image of the "make believe" Superman character. Shooting up drugs in his arm, drinking to the point of abuse is another matter and would impact the Superman image...if it were part of the movie. You can't condemn homosexuality without doing the same with heterosexuality...especially as it pertains to this new Superman movie...it's producer...and it's starring actor. By the way...the 50's TV Superman...George Reeves smoked, drank and loved to play cards...and he's revered today for his portrayal of this character....and no one that knew him has anything but praise for his moral character and the good he did for others.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 19:45 |
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Tim...I live in America...born here...as were the four or five generations before me...and WOULD NOT nor DO I HAVE TO KISS the Statue of Liberty...nor wrap myself in a flag to prove my love for my country. You're quite right...America isn't perfect...and it's the imperfect conduct of our government and some of our leaders, that has tarnished the country's GREATNESS. The point you seem to miss about TRUTH...JUSTICE...THE AMERICAN WAY is that these are suggestive terms. What is TRUTH? What is JUSTICE? What is THE AMERICAN WAY? The answers depend upon the people you speak to....and their life experiences. I didn't scream "GAYNESS" is like being black...you made that analogy...again missing the point about JUSTICE...and the historical treatment of black people in America. Now the GAY thing...Bryan Singer is a film producer...who's gay...so what...if he was heterosexual...the issue of GAYNESS and Brandon Routh's wearing of a Superman costume...that the cut of briefs are two inches shorter than the style Christopher Reeve wore, wouldn't be raised. Being GAY is NOT an action. Drinking and smoking are actions. Driving a car is an action. For argument sake...assume Brandon Routh is gay...his playing a FICTIONAL role, flying around in a Superman costume has no impact on his performance or the image of the "make believe" Superman character. Shooting up drugs in his arm, drinking to the point of abuse is another matter and would impact the Superman image...if it were part of the movie. You can't condemn homosexuality without doing the same with heterosexuality...especially as it pertains to this new Superman movie...it's producer...and it's starring actor. By the way...the 50's TV Superman...George Reeves smoked, drank and loved to play cards...and he's revered today for his portrayal of this character....and no one that knew him has anything but praise for his moral character and the good he did for others.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 21:07 |
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First of all let me make a disclaimer if this post sounds the least bit angry, it's not. It's hard to debate sometimes without sounding hateful and angry.
So first of all,
Dude how can you say it's not an action? It requires an action be completed before someone can be called gay. I can't call myself a basketball player unless I occassionally play ball.
Just for arguments sake you know scientist have found that genetically some people are more disposed to smoke cigerettes than others. Yet the same type of logic is not applied to smoking.
According to what I've read Reeves never smoked around kids just because he was aware of his influence on kids. Besides a wild guy in those days would be considered a saint by today's standards anyway.
I'm glad your a fellow American and you love your country. But for example, I wouldn't go around yacking about all the bad things my wife does and I love her so how can you justify downing America if you love her so much. BTW I don't mean this analogy as an attack on you. It's just for arguments sake. And I'm not saying we should blindly follow our government either btw without raising questions sometimes, just think about the good things too.
Nobody is saying Singer should be hated or anything else, and yeah I think people would have noticed the short panties. I noticed they were too short, and I didn't know Singer was gay. I'm sure his movie making abilities are not hampered by it. He makes a good TV show called House. I'll let you know how he does on Superman Returns when I see it.
Dude as far as I know there are no moral, legal, biblical, alien or otherwise restrictions placed by God, law, etc, etc, on a man and woman getting married and doing the love thang. Good thing too or you and me wouldn't be here. For that matter the rest of the world wouldn't either.
If your gay by any chance, no offense. I used to be a smoker. Hopefully, you want hold that against me.
What is truth, justice, and the American Way?
To me it's a lot of things. It's those guys that are fighting in Iraq. It's the guys that beat Hitler in WW2. It's about a group of men years ago that decided to start a new country based on the fact that men have a right to be free, and that this right was granted to them by God Himself.
It's about a man working his whole life so his kids can go to college and have more than he did. It's the guy that runs that extra mile in a marathon who refuses to quit when his body says stop.
Justice is performed every day when our police officers risk their lives to bring the bad guys down. Our system of government even has checks and balances that keep our judges clean. If they get dirty then even the judges can go to jail.
When other countries need assistance America is there lending a hand. I think we probably spend too much money on other countries, but that's just me.
That's all folks.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 22:07 |
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You know, I didn't even think about Superman's external underwear. To me it looked like a speedo. And my first encounter of him way back in high school involved him in a speedo for the Lincoln High swim team.
When I think about the American Way, I think about, of course, our soldier. I think that's beaten in our heads. But I also think about the sanitation worker. The guy working in the deli across the street. And yes, my buddy who runs a bar (who is gay, but has a bar open to everyone). I think that the American Way is tolerance.
I cannot say whether being gay is a choice or if it's genetic. I just don't know. I can honestly say that it is something that I don't understand. But I'm not going to tell my buddy that he can't do things that I can because he is different.
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| Posted: 20 Mar 2006 23:21 |
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I think the definition of tolerance that is preached today is wrong though. We are being encouraged to accept things that we might not agree with on a moral basis, and if you don't you are looked at as if your hating the person not the thing the person is doing.
It's all political. I guess this isn't really the best place to discuss it though. It could go on for all eternity. So maybe I'll just shut up now.
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 03:48 |
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Wise choice!
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 04:31 |
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Hi rabbitspam...Thanks for the CATWOMAN correction...but I hope you understood my point about heterosexual film & TV producers exploiting female sexuality, through provocative costuming and how that's okay...but if you're a gay film producer like Bryan Singer...you're crucified...just for making minor changes in a Superman costume.
Glad you explored the 50's Superman TV series. That first season was just FANTASTIC. I really liked the relationship between Phyllis Coates, Lois Lane character and George Reeves, Clark Kent character. The way they both played these characters...they were just good together and believable. Phyllis
Coates played a strong, gutsy Lois Lane...she was on a par with Clark Kent...yet she remained a woman...a lady. I wish the producer hadn't been changed after the first season...because by the third season...the show was really at a juvenile level. It could have remained at the first season's quality in adventure and story lines and been appropriate and entertaining for children and adults.
The "Unknown People" episode was FANTASTIC! I think the connection between Superman and the "Mole Men"
was the fact they were both aliens to earth. It was a study in human tolerance or lack of....where you see the towns people over react out of ignorance and hatred, born from fear about something they didn't understand...kinda reminds me of certain opinions in this forum.
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 05:07 |
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yeah. I understood. I just wanted to add the point that many studios don't seem to know the difference between sexy and trampy. Kind of like how some producers force action into a movie every 10 minutes whether the story needs it or not.
Hey George Reeves is from Iowa! Oh the things you learn on the internet. Actually, it's something that I probably already knew but just forgot. I really do like the show. I kinda remember watching early in the morning with my dad when I was real little. Maybe I'll get the DVDs soon. It reminds of the science fiction stories that spawned the idea of Superman.
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 12:33 |
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Wow you 2, Tim and goatherder, can rant a bit can't you but we all have a right to do so, if we please. Just for the record people scientists have discovered that, through catscans if I remember correctly, gay men have a slightly altered brain chemistry that makes a small section of their brain conduct chemical and electrical signals along the same lines as a heterosexual woman. I don't know whether they did the same tests on gay woman but I only found the documentary because I was channel surfing while the football was on a break but I thought that what they were trying to say is that if you are gay then nothing is going to change that fact about you. I am not sure if this helps either of you boys point of view but I guess that it means that homosexuality is in a way an involuntary action, isn't it? Wouldn't it be a diffcult life for you if you were gay in a muslim governed country?
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 16:53 |
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We all have our issues in life some are predisposed to smoking or drinking or gambling. Some people can even get addicted to video games and end up in trouble with that as crazy as that sounds. The only point I would like to make is we are still accountable for all of our actions. No matter what they are. The new politically correct logic seems to be if your gay that you can leave your wife of 20 years and do whatever the heck you want because you can't help yourself. That kind of logic urks me severely. If we all followed our instincts where would it stop? Just how far would our society go?
Personally, I'm addicted to debating. Can somebody please help me stop!
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 19:16 |
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Superjon...thanks for your comments...being ANYTHING in a muslim country would be difficult. The gay thing...the attitude and the reaction to Bryan Singer being gay....and the speculation about the impact of this on the "Superman Returns" movie...and ripping the costume and Brandon Routh apart, as well...is to me, discusting. It's one thing to express opposing views...but when it's done in a caustic, inflamatory manner...for me it's intolerable
and I have to respond. The claim that GAY is an action is ridiculous. If you have a virgin female or male...and are aroused by the opposite sex...but never had sex...what would that person be? I think that virgin male or female would be heterosexual...without the ACTION of sexual intercourse. Homosexuality, Heterosexuality are instinctive. So...all this crap has found it's way into the discussion of Superman...and if he can't feel the sensation of bullets bouncing of his chest...and with the exception of Kryptonite, of pain....then the question has to be asked...would he feel the sensation of sexual intercourse...I would think not...so the gay vs straight issue is mute...if you really think about it.
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 20:50 |
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Well you don't have to get mad about it, sheesh.
But actually when a person hasn't had sex wouldn't they just be considered a virgin, period? No offense but why are you so determined to take the choice out of it. I believe we all have choices to make. We are not destined for any course. We can control our own destiny!
Ripping the costume apart seems to me to be a part of the comic book to movie experience. There are always going to be rumblings before the premiere of a new super hero movie. Spiderman got flack over the organic shooters. I almost flipped over it with intense moral disdain, but honestly after I saw it on the movie it didn't bother me near as bad.
True some people over the course of this thread may not have been exactly loving in their posts, but too much love can you make you queezy to your stomache.
Gee, fella have you ever saw a dirty harry movie or a three stooges short? I'm thinking not. I like politeness as much as the next guy, but only when it's appropriate. Sometimes just being ornery, negative, and just all around cranky can be entertaining, especially when your talking about Hollywood spoiled types.
What would you have said if this guy was in charge of Superman Returns?
Now that would have been cool!
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 21:14 |
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Tim...it's time for honesty...I'm on the same page you are. I just love point...counterpoint debate and I like taking the opposing side...as I did here. You have to say it was entertaining The Gay thing...I can LOVE you but HATE your SIN. Better than Clint Eastwood for our HERO...I say it should be our President...George W. Bush...there's a true SUPERMAN. SO you take Bro...GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 21:17 |
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Has anyone seen the new trailer that was shown at ShoWest? Are there any pirate copies on the internet?
You have a point about the costumes, Tim. It seems to be the thing that comic fans look forward to. Have you ever noticed that (outside of Bat-nipples) no one complains about the Batsuit? It's a huge departure from the comic book and I don't think I've heard a lot of gripes. That's just my observation... so please, no big debates on that.
I think I've heard all I want to hear about Superman-love. I personally subscribe to Kevin Smith's theory that Superman shoots a load like a shotgun, so I think it would be impossible for him to have sex with any mortal human.
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| Posted: 21 Mar 2006 23:17 |
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ARRRGGH these are thoughts I don't need in my brain, Batman nipples and Superman's ability to have sex with mortals.
I have been searching for a copy of the whole Superman Returns trailer I read was shown by Singer himself.
Goatherder, I guess you got my goat. Ok so basically your saying you were pulling my chain the whole time. Great. Just swell. I think I need some nerve medication now. 
Well God Bless America! I need a vacation.
That's all folks
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 00:03 |
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sorry, Tim.
Where do you get all of those pictures???
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